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8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise

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A while back we reported on leaked details of an Elder Scrolls MMO coming our way soon. Now Zenimax Online, developers of The Elder Scrolls Online, have released official details on the game in the June edition of GameInformer. Our resident Elder Scrolls nut, Michael Glavin, was not impressed. We asked why... We probably shouldn't have.

"And lo! The end is in sight..."

Warning: Some of what you are about to read may contain fan-boy rage.

8. The cookie-cutter plot and setting

The Elder Scrolls OnlineWhen it comes to fantasy role-playing games, there's not much variation in the overall plot sense – you start off a lowly serf, you find out you're “the chosen one” destined to save the world, and after about 100 hours you're a walking armoury with the powers of a god. That's a given; that's what we expect. But we do expect at least a little bit of originality when it comes to setting.

In The Elder Scrolls, this is no different. While you might be on a constant quest to save Tamriel, you're doing so from dragons, civil war, or a vampiric demi-god harnessing the power from the heart of a god from beneath a volcano that spews disease and insanity (what the hell, Morrowind?). So, in The Elder Scrolls Online, you probably wouldn't look twice at the setting – the Imperial throne is left empty, effectively destroying The Firmament that separates Mundus from Oblivion, and now one of the Daedric Lords has set out to get his grubby gigantic mitts on the mortal realm.

Except that we've done all that before. In Oblivion, the Emperor Uriel Septim is assassinated, thus leading to the invasion of the Daedra led by the Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. In TES Online, it's Molag Bal doing the plundering of Tamriel, which means that the concept of Oblivion Gates sporadically popping up in the countryside and spewing forth demons has been replaced with giant anchors that fall down from the sky (to the same effect of scaly monstrosities everywhere), but the point still stands. It's 90% the same story, only this time instead of running fetch-quests for Martin Septim you'll be... Well, we'll get to that in a bit.

"It's retconning at its most blatant and inappropriate"

7. It directly contradicts TES lore

So, as we reported in our previous article, TES Online is set over a thousand years before Skyrim, during a time of civil war and unrest. The period of time that we're talking about is known as the Interregrum in Elder Scrolls lore, between the Second and Third Eras when Tamriel had no emperor and the provinces dissolved into independent warring states. That's all well and good.

But nowhere in any pre-established TES lore, from Arena all the way back in 1994 to Skyrim in 2011 and everything in between, is there one scrap or shred of evidence from any book, researcher or exploration, that giant demonic anchors from another dimension rained down from the sky.

Now you might think “Well, it is based a long time ago in comparison to the other games...” - and that would be correct. But Tamriel's historians are a very thorough bunch, and most of the time-line in the events of Nirn are pretty well established – even as far back as the First Era, hundreds if not thousands of years again before the setting of TES Online. So, what, did everyone just forget about the apocalyptic invasion from Oblivion, or did Molag Bal use some obviously very spooky form of magic to make them all forget and remove every single piece of evidence? It's retconning at its most blatant and inappropriate.

6. You can't just shoehorn in references and expect them to work

The Elder Scrolls OnlineAnd it's not just the whole Daedric invasion that makes no sense. Names from previous TES games have been cropping up all over the place in GameInformer's coverage, and they're even more baffling. For example, the fact that the noble Tharn family (who would go on to spawn Jagar Tharn, the main antagonist of Arena) is conspiring with Mannimarco, King of Worms (a recurring necromancer character from both Daggerfall and Oblivion) to raise an army of the undead to protect Cyrodiil's borders. Mannimarco in turn is double-dealing with Molag Bal to bring all sorts of unpleasantness Tamriel's way.

This would be fine, if it weren't for the fact that Mannimarco's lifespan (which encompasses a few millennia) is pretty well documented and, again, there would have been some record of his dealings with the Daedric invasion. It can't really be said that his whole involvement would've been missed or overlooked, because if that were the case – why mention it in the lore in the first place? He's obviously going to have some key role to play that will be pretty hard to miss – it's a safe bet that the player(s) will have to face off against him at some point to try and reclaim their immortal souls (which is a convenient stopgap to explain why players never permanently die, and also flies in the face of a fair few conventions of lore in itself). These “champions of Tamriel” are undoubtedly the kind that would have their deeds well-documented (we'll ignore the fact that we've never heard of them, until now), so why would future scribes miss out on their face-off with the infamous King of Worms?

The involvement of the Tharn family makes just as little sense – again, they must have some significant involvement in the whole affair, or why bother having them in there at all? And yet if it turns out that they're heroically vanquished or otherwise incarcerated by the hero(es) in the events of the game, how then is it that several hundred years later little Jagar manages to weasel his way into the Emperor's court, and be close enough to stage a coup?

It's fairly obvious that elements are like these are just inserted because fans of varying lifespans will recognise them and go “Ah, I know that person” - but there's been just about no consideration given to whether these references actually make sense. And speaking of which...

5. The factions themselves make no sense

The Elder Scrolls OnlineThe identities of the three factions involved in TES Online has also been revealed. Initially we speculated that it would probably involve some sort of coalitions vying for the Emperor's throne, and in that sense we were right – the three factions that the player can choose from are the Ebonheart Pact (made up of Nords, Dark Elves and Argonians), the Aldmeri Dominion (comprised of High Elves, Wood Elves and Khajiit), and the Daggerfall Covenant (consisting of Orcs, Bretons and Redguards). The Imperials, as we previously mentioned, aren't having a great time of it – with the Imperial Throne empty Cyrodiil has been sacked repeatedly by each of the warring factions trying to take White Gold Tower and proclaim their dominance.

Now, it's not hard to see the direction that Zenimax has been going for – stories of intense political intrigue have become quite popular since Game of Thrones raised its head, and it's a fairly comparable setting. But none of these factions make any sense at all. The Daggerfall Covenant, for example, is supposed to be the most democratic faction that'll be most commonly associated as “good” - yet this goes directly against the hundreds of lore-based history where Bretons and Redguards warred with and enslaved the Orcs before they managed to pull themselves together and create their city-state of Orsinum. Not to mention the fact that the neighbouring Wood Elves and Khajiit have also been warring for centuries, and the Nords, Dark Elves and Argonians of the Ebonheart Pact have all been at each other's throats since about as long as they've all been on the scene in Tamriel.

It's not unreasonable to think that in times when the whole world is under attack even enemies have to work together – but already we've seen that this is not the case. As previously mentioned, Oblivion's story follows pretty-much the exact same lines as TES Online's, and listening to NPCs discussing the invasion in the game reveals that Skyrim and Morrowind both try and take advantage of the situation by invading their neighbours. And Morrowind has been known to invade Black Marsh repeatedly to take Argonians as slaves – a fairly big portion of the culture in Morrowind was dedicated to the Argonian slave trade. These are three races that have deep-seated issues of racism that don't disappear even under global crises, so the fact that they all seem happy to skip the animosity and work together for mutual gain is completely nonsensical.

4.The visuals don't fit the Elder Scrolls theme. At all.

While it's not specifically stated, it's become common knowledge that TES Online will use the Hero Engine, the same engine that Bioware used in creating Star Wars: The Old Republic. SW: TOR is designed to be based in the same era of the Star Wars universe as Knights of the Old Republic, several thousand years before the seminal movies. A lot of fan criticism was based on the fact that visually, The Old Republic bears almost no resemblance to Knights of the Old Republic. Not only was the design style way off, but the whole game was given very cartoony graphics that made everything look like it was made from plasticine.

"It's true that you don't want to be straining your eyes through various shades of brown, grey and green in a game where visual acuity and spatial awareness will inevitably be quite important, but it just flies against the whole Elder Scrolls visual them"

The Elder Scrolls Online

While it's true that a game engine does not dictate the quality of a game, or even how the game will appear, it seems that TES Online is suffering from the same problems as The Old Republic. Oblivion was uncharacteristically colourful and gaudy compared to the other games in the series, but the rest all had a somewhat more gritty visual style. It's not all bleached colours and offensive bloom effects like Modern Warfare 3, but it does present itself as quite grim on more than a few occasions.

TES Online, on the other hand, seems to look more like World of Warcraft. The colours stick out like a sore thumb, and the whole visual presentation looks very bold and cartoony – nothing at all like the style that TES games have made for themselves. It's true that you don't want to be straining your eyes through various shades of brown, grey and green in a game where visual acuity and spatial awareness will inevitably be quite important, but it just flies against the whole Elder Scrolls visual theme, and it's not unreasonable to think that there is common ground between the two that could have been comfortably reached without looking like Lord of the Rings meet Viva Piñata”.

3. Some of the game-play elements are simply ridiculous

Part of the reason that World of Warcraft is the most successful MMO on the multiplayer gaming scene is because it got there first, and it set the standards that all other subsequent MMOs have been judged against. Every game that has sprung up under the pretence of being a “WoW-killer” has quickly been dismissed on release as being, ironically, “too much like WoW”.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Zenimax have been trying to dissuade this notion by promising that game-play will more closely resemble the core game-play of traditional Elder Scrolls games. But it's hard to see how they plan to back that up; the GameInformer article states that TES Online will have 5 core classes for players to play – which is unlikely to be a tank, DPS-based mage, rogue, healer and something yet-to-be-disclosed. That, plus the fact that the aforementioned factions have all obviously been deliberately designed to take advantage of the warrior-mage-rogue triumvirate that reigns supreme over the entire fantasy RPG genre.

Not only that, but Zenimax have been teasing game-play elements that are obviously supposed to entice fans into believing that TES Online will break the mould. One of these aspects is the quest Zenimax revealed that involves putting on the armour of an ancient warrior and travelling back in time to the fateful battle where he was killed. Now, it's not hard to see how this was justified – Skyrim had a section of the game that revolved around time travel, seemingly a first for the series, and by opening that avenue it's reasonable to see that Zenimax would be eager to explore it. What they didn't seem to take into consideration, however, is that the time travel part of Skyrim was stupid as hell – and the time travel section of TES Online sounds like even more of a gimmick.

Another game-play element was being able to set up traps to ensnare enemies – specifically having a stealth-based character spilling flammable oil around the battlefield and having a fire spell-wielding mage set it alight. Now, this might sound like the clever kind of set-up that Bioshock 2 let you arrange – but in reality, all it is is the ability to lay traps (something almost every MMO with a stealthy character class lets you do) only it'll need another player to take advantage of them. So from the get-go it cripples one of the most important solo game-play aspects of one of the main character classes. Granted, the very nature of playing an MMO encourages you to play with others, but what about in a duel? These observations aren't some kind of incredible insight – they're simply common sense, and if the designers at Zenimax have caught them then I sure hope they're doing something else they're not telling us about in order to make it work.

2. It'll (probably) kill the Elder Scrolls series

Another reason World of Warcraft did so well is because it was a spin-off on an already-established and successful series. The Warcraft series of RTS games were some of the most popular games out there in the nineties, and WoW was designed to expand on the story after the hugely popular Warcraft III. But, if you'll notice, there haven't been any new Warcraft games in years, WoW expansions notwithstanding.

The Elder Scrolls Online

This is no coincidence. While it's gone from strength to relative strength over the last 20 years or so, the RTS genre has always appealed to somewhat of a niche audience. World of Warcraft, with a subscriber base of over 4 million players, obviously appeals to a much broader demographic. And with the fact that the last 3 successive Elder Scrolls games being dubbed Game of the Year on every release, it's not hard to see the same pattern emerging on a much larger scale. Why release another Elder Scrolls single-player game when you can release a TES Online expansion pack? It's already been confirmed that huge swathes of the Tamriel landscape have not been included in the initial development, are instead being saved for release as DLC material at a later time.

Granted, one point that goes against this argument is that TES Online is being developed by Zenimax Online, not Bethesda Softworks, who have worked on each previous TES title. But both studios are owned by a parent company, Zenimax Media, and Zenimax Online was set up specifically for the purpose of developing TES Online. If it does well enough, it's not hard to envision Bethesda being subsidised into Zenimax Media after finishing whatever Skyrim content they have planned in order to work on their title instead. And if that happens, we can say goodbye to ever experiencing more of the Elder Scrolls universe without having to pay for a full-price expansion pack and a monthly subscription fee.

"It's inevitable that the epic-scale sieges and invasions that Zenimax have promised will more often than not be predicated by a virtual faeces-flinging competition among the elite players as alliances are broken and poorly-spelled obscenities fill the chat window"

And finally: It's an MMO

OK, I'm going to get a lot of flak for this one, but it's true. Though I haven't specifically stated, it's probably been evident throughout this article that I'm not a fan of MMO games. Try as I might, I never seemed to manage to get my head around an MMO enough to enjoy it, and it's not for lack of trying. Single-player RPGs have always been more my thing, as is the case with a large portion of the Elder Scrolls fan base. Which is the reason that the series hasn't been made multiplayer until now. There's a very vocal subsection of the TES community that's hugely outspoken to creating an Elder Scrolls multiplayer game, which is an opinion Bethesda have mirrored – game director Todd Howard has gone on the record many times stating The Elder Scrolls always has been, and always will be, a single-player experience.

And there's a reason why. The Elder Scrolls games have always been about putting you in the driver's seat and letting you shape the world around you. They're designed to make you feel like the only person that really matters. So how are fans going to react to having to share that sense of glory and accomplishment with thousands of other players? It may sound juvenile, but it will drastically affect the whole layout of the game-play. You might be a max level, fully-epic-geared unstoppable killing machine who saved the world, but you'll still be only one of many.

Zenimax have tried to remedy this by implementing an endgame that allows players to form their own sub-factions to try and take over Cyrodiil and claim the throne of the emperor in White Gold Tower for themselves. This means that, sooner or later, there will be an Emperor (or Empress) of The Elder Scrolls Online, and it's fairly obvious that a fairly infantilised version of all the political drama that that entails will soon follow.

Gaming has made massive strides in the last decade and a half, but gamers are still at their core a petty and jealous bunch who want all the bragging rights for themselves. So it's inevitable that the epic-scale sieges and invasions that Zenimax have promised will more often than not be predicated by a virtual faeces-flinging competition among the elite players as alliances are broken and poorly-spelled obscenities fill the chat window.

The Elder Scrolls Online

That's not all, though. Part of what made The Elder Scrolls so distinct was the basis of having a game with the depth and scale of an RPG, and the first-person perspective and action of some bizarre fantasy-based FPS. In counterpoint to this, Zenimax have all but outwardly stated that TES Online will, by its very nature, be based in third-person. True, this might seem like a pithy point to bring up, but it is true that third-person games play very different to first-person games, and the task of simply mashing number keys on a hotbar to activate spells and abilities strips The Elder Scrolls of the visceral and in-your-face nature of combat game-play that it's been carefully cultivating over the last 6 years or more. In essence, it takes away the whole personality of the game, and by the looks of it we're going to be left with an “Oh look, it's another fantasy MMORPG, but this one says The Elder Scrolls on the box” kind of deal.

So in the end, why are we seeing an Elder Scrolls MMO when it is so (apparently) ridden with problems? The only answer that can adequately explain it is money. Oblivion sold ridiculously well during its tenure in the game charts, and Skyrim has performed even better in just six months or so. It's a fruit ripe for picking, and Zenimax have decided to do that – but, going on what can only be described as lazy design processes poorly masked as “unique features”, they've paid almost no regard to the quality or content of the resulting product. And while it's still very early days yet, if things keep going the way they do, the release of the game will bring about an Internet s***storm the likes of which Zenimax will have never experienced before. But me, I'll have no part of it. If this is how The Elder Scrolls is going to progress, I'm washing my hands of the series. It's been fun, and it's shaped more than a significant part of my life and tastes as a gamer, but I don't plan on buying a £40 game and whatever monthly-paid annual subscription fee will inevitably be in place just to be as disappointed as I expect to be.

Unless one of the editing staff members wants to hook me up...?

[Editor' s Note: Nice try.]

See also:

Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition sells 1,000,000 in the first week


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Comments 

 
#1 Controversial! Chris Morgan 2012-05-09 04:13
But I agree. MMOs are often the worst things that can happen to franchises. As you say it always stunts series further installments and there's no way I'd rather play TES online than TES: VI.

I live in dread of this happening to other top franchises, especially Mass Effect.
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#2 Sir Rob Meiklejohn 2012-05-09 16:46
Great article and I agree mostly. Fortunately I don't think it'll kill The Elder Scrolls single player exactly because it's got such a dedicated fan base fans who want it to remain that way. You me and Chris have probably spent hundreds on the Elder scrolls over the years but clearly we won't be forking out anything for the MMO. I guess it depends on whether we're representative of Elder Scrolls fans or if the standard player is more like Charlie P.

And as for Charlie P... look to your own bollocks sir!
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#3 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Stuart 2012-05-09 17:48
Quoting Charlie P:
Stop your bollocks. At least wait to see until we have more information about it.
We already have enough information to know this game will be shit. For one they're copy/pasting WoW's combat and it's going to run on the Hero engine. We're looking at another flop like The Old Republic.
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#4 Yes and No Evan Sorrell 2012-05-10 03:58
Well I have to say you make some very valid points but also being a die hard TES fan as well as being open minded to new things Im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see.

If they listen to their fan base they have the potential to make it a great game however it really will be a wait and see kind of thing. On that note they have time to make changes before release so anything could happen.
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#5 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Rymen 2012-05-10 04:00
Going anywhere in Tamriel = Cool
Going anywhere in Tamriel with friends = Cool
Everything else = ***** off
This is going to suck dick. If it ends up ruining TES, which I doubt, I'll be so pissed off. A TES game with co-op would be cool, but I don't think anyone ever wanted an MMO.
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#6 I agree Django 2012-05-10 06:45
This game was made for me. I'm a huge MMO fan (since EverQuest) and a huge Elder Scrolls fan. But I'm not buying it. In fact, it makes me a little disgusted.

I would have, if it wasn't such an obvious cash grab. Nothing about this game except for the names of places and races is even Elder Scrolls. Class-based system instead of the traditional mix-and-match skill-based system? Third person DIKU MMO instead of the first person FPS style that TES is known for? Plasticy cartoon graphics that look 100% like WoW if it had slightly better textures? And maybe the worst part: instance the entire thing and try to sell it as a "pvp" game?

Just because you have some DAoC guy in the credits and slapped in a BG or two doesn't mean you made a pvp game.

Just because you called the lizardmen Argonians and the world Tamriel doesn't mean you made an Elder Scrolls game.

Just because the box says The Elder Scrolls doesn't mean you'll make a fortune off a terrible game.

Oh... well, you probably will.
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#7 Fuck... not again Drumluke 2012-05-10 18:04
This is happening for so many years now...

Warcraft series -> World of Warcraft
Star Wars Kotor 1+2 -> The old republic

And now the elderscrolls series...

Is this a good way to remember Todd Howard?
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#8 NeverYouMind NeverYouMind 2012-05-12 13:03
I an apreciate your argumnet but I think you're darastically over-reacting. I dont see anything wrong with expanding the backstory, which is 400 years back from the beginning of the third era. No mention of KoTOR's story appeared in Star Wars Lore before it was released in 2003, and that certainly didn't kill the game. Also, the factions do seem to make sense. The Reguards and Bretons could be enslaving the Orcs, and the Nords could be in alliance with the Argonians only because the dunmer keep them as slaves. It doesn't really brreak any lore, and Bethesda seem to have made sure of this. Besides, why would they close Bethesda if this game was a success. Even if it is, they still have an immensely popular single-player market that they are hardly going to piss up a wall. It's all about money with these people, look at EA. You say that 'why make another Elder Scrolls game when we can make an ESO expansion', well surely they would think 'why can't we do both'. In fact the only problem you've presented that can't be satisfacorally worked around with the graphics-which look ridiculious.
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#9 over-reacting jc 2012-05-13 19:29
I think the author has an issue with MMO's more than anything. Nearly every argument brought up isnt TES specific tbh. All MMO's will have its share of politics, chat troll griping and posturing, redundancy in storyline etc. Content is player driven more than anything.

To say its going to be Sh** with with a prior prejudice against MMOs to begin with is disingenuous.

Its also trial and error for Devs throughout the life of the MMO successful or not.
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#10 Has a chance David 2012-07-18 14:42
I think TES: Online has a great chance at being a good game. If it's not, oh well...won't kill the series for me. All they are trying to do is make one lasting title that they can put out small expansions for rather than take years to come up with an entirely new story line that doesn't feel like it's been done in previous titles. And who's to say what the historians did and didn't record, there is always far more than what is written in the annals of old.
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#11 Tes mmo Jamie 2012-09-07 03:51
Well I always like mmorpg so il see in the coming months how good it can be, sum1 said it won't affect the tes series different branch company well ur wrong where you think the profits of tes series have gone on this mmo of it sucks no money for future tes games, way I see it could be good could be bad was disappointed with swtor somthing tells me this isn't gonna be different there is money in mmorpg but Only for certain games n tes isn't one of them take what makes tes games outta it then it's not a tes game. I would however like to see a co op or arena on next gen consoles on tes VI either way good luck zeni***** only cause u own Bethesda doesn't give u the right to be ***** just my opinion of zeni max Bethesda u rule keep it up
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#12 Your arguments make no sense Stonedwizard69 2012-11-21 18:36
Your very butthurt about how everything "contradicts" the lore, but honestly, nobody cares. They had this idea after they wrote the lore, it would make no sense to go back and change everything they wrote. The factions make sense, they are based on countries that border each other, and if you read into it a little bit, you would know why certain races are actually allying with each other...
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#13 Risky move Atrix 2012-11-25 02:48
Well, i would say that this is very brave, or foolish move from Zenimax. In any case this whole story with MMO will ended with eather:
1. Great success
2. total failure that will leave a scar or dissapointment on players.

What really worries me is actualy the communite that will be there. Since i convinced myself that it will not be long before harmonic community goes to total babarian rubble full of haters and racistic brats which can't take the fact that they are getting their asses kicked not by NPC's but players.
PLAYERS. Just imagine on what the chat log will look after or during one of these massive PvP battle's.

After that there is that other kind of plague that infest every online game. Hackers and peoples without a shrink of real activities in their lifes.
Don't try to tell me that there will be no hackers or so called "script kiddies", because they will be...maybe not instantly but...they will be there bealive me. Those sorts of people always find a way to ruin the fun of other players.

Third thing is, the fact that it is MMO and that 90% of stuff we already seen in WoW just like in almost all other MMO's that were coming after WoW. Only this time its called TESO.
Maybe i am wrong but, i have a bad feeling about this.

Fourth thing, and this is my biggest fear. I am afraid that with ESO the great series will come to an end, forever.
I know that all games series needs to comes to an end sometimes, its just... When you sharing YOUR game with other you dont feel power you would feel in singleplayer. The fact that your character role has changed from "Big Man" to the "One With a Crowd" and not in a good way.

To me it wouldn't feel like fantasy it would feel like REAL WORLD. The very one we been trying to get away for a while by playing the fantasy games.

I am afraid that this be a very little fun for me.
Kinda akward cause few years ago i wanter an MMO, now i am not so sure anymore. It dosn't mean that i will not try the game. I am just being sceptical...i hope that i am in wrong.

Why they couldn't make another singleplayer game with all of Thamriel. I would be perfectly satisfied with that.
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#14 Pfffft Meh 2012-11-26 04:38
It will probably join the ranks of Star Trek online, where they will be forced to shutdown their pay to play scheme and it will just turn into a useless download on steam and collect dust.
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#15 Agree Mlongrie 2012-12-04 05:17
I was immediately disappointed when I heard of the Elder Scrolls MMO, because I think it'll end the single player Elder Scroll games. I've been gaming for a long time now, and for me, the Elder Scroll filled the void created by Ultima Online, and the ending of those single player games. The customers are here and a game will be made to fill the genre, perhaps its time for a new studio to take the stage as the premier fantasy RPG developer. Its a shame that such a huge success in gaming history is making a turn like this.

Sand box RPGs are going to be around for a long time, they're very satisfying to play.
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#16 mabe ice 2012-12-12 14:36
only time will tell but who are we to talk the game hasnt even came out
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#17 Not sure how I feel... OnTheFence 2012-12-26 08:04
Though the idea of getting to hop into my game and share that experience with one of my friends (similar to borderlands 2) in the world of Tamriel would be amazing! As for an MMO, I dunno...

I do enjoy MMOs, I've played WoW and FFXI both for a decent amount of time, but I get bored over time, especially when there are aspects that REQUIRE you to work with other people. Sometimes you just wanna work alone. And an MMO doesn't really give you the option, you'll always need someone else.

I think trying to find a way to maintain the graphics of the game, the gameplay and style of the game, but to allow a friend to join in, as well, is destined for next-gen consoles (assuming there will be more single player titles after the release of TESO). But that's as far as it goes for me, personally. Having the option of playing Elder Scrolls, as I always have, alone. OR when in the mood or when you're chilling with your friends and you want to play, you don't feel like such a dickhead making them sit and watch you LOL they can grab their char and go.

Honestly, I'd like to see something where you can play with a friend, but you'd have to start a new 2 player game together and that would be the world you play in, where single player would be a separate file. So, if you wanted to play your 2P game, you'd need who you started with to play with you. Whether or not there are changes to storyline from 1P to 2P wouldn't matter all that much to me. But I'm always making multiple characters and playing through different ways anyway (as I'm sure many do). It'd be an addition to that trend that brings a new aspect to the game.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, as I trust Bethesda and if they back it, there must be something redeeming. If they don't back it, frankly, neither do I. So, as has been said, only time will tell.

One more random thing, I hope despite these alliances you can still choose any of TES races for your character and just have to choose one of those 3 as a starting point, much like FFXI. If I can't be an Imperial (which I always have been since Morrowind), then it's really dropped the ball on what TES is all about. PROVE OUR SKEPTICISM WRONG!! lol
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#18 Horrible Article Deejay 2013-01-01 16:21
I realize this article is pretty old, but it's wrong on so many levels.
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#19 And...? Luke Connolly 2013-01-02 00:42
Quoting Deejay:
I realize this article is pretty old, but it's wrong on so many levels.


Care to fill us in? That's a pretty 'to the point' sort of comment...but you don't back it up with anything.
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#20 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise tors 2013-01-10 05:46
How the heck is Orc + Breton + Redguard "deliberately designed" around the three main MMO archetypes? I see Warrior, Mage, Warrior. Where's the Rogue there?
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#21 Where is your point? Finwe8 2013-01-10 17:55
Alright admitted I stopped after reading the first 3 points (went with headlines after that)
The first 3 are basically the same: "There would have been a historical report".

1. The absence of a report is never a reason that something did not happen.
2. Just because there is a lot documented there may still be a lot (not only eso specific) which is not reported.
3. Yes, for the development of an MMO it may be necessary to tweak the story to some degree. That might be necessary to make the MMO's story fun. But from what I read till now they are most careful about not to destroy there world.

What I read here, is that you are a great fan of the single player game and you are afraid that the single player games will be at an end now. This is not without reason (looking at the example of warcraft) but they explicitly choose another time frame, another studio AND explicitly communicate that is not what they want. So I would say: "Wait and see" ;)
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#22 A good story, but not really self-consistent reasoning almace 2013-01-19 00:44
The whole issue of the setting being well before the single-player games that you bemoan constantly in this article is exactly why it won't interfere the rest of the series' production. It's exactly why they made it that way, it's been directly stated in that promo trailer. Besides, unlike Warcraft, a separate team is still doing the single player game content (which is still more Skyrim for now), they're completely compartmentaliz ed. Acting like the sky is falling is just over-dramatic.

Besides, all the whining about the "retconning" doesn't really hold up anyway. Non-linearity of time (e.g., the dragon breaks) and the inherent fallibility and subjectivity of historical accounts (e.g., Tiber Septim's whole "history") are central motifs in the Elder Scrolls series. To act like they whole thing is just a 'set in stone' history already nailed down with no room for a story like this is just either disingenuous or the result of a too superficial analysis of the lore. And honestly, no I don't think the time-related plot parts of Skyrim were "stupid as hell." They also didn't originate in the Skyrim plot, they're been referenced in in-game books since at least Morrowind. Maybe you should read a bit more about the Elder Scrolls games and re-think your opinions on this.

Similarly, while I'll admit the factions do seem like a bit of a stretch, it's a far cry from impossible. Information so far has stressed that most of the alliances are merely alliances of convenience and/or for survival, which really isn't hard to believe. Tamriel's politics are pretty fluid, and long-time enemies forced to work together by circumstances has a precedence, just look at how the Nords and Dunmer worked together to repel the Akaviri invaders.

Ultimately, you have some good points, but they get totally drowned out by the extreme cynicism that manages to leave behind both self-consistent logic and existing facts. I don't mean this to be mean, but honestly you should probably replay some of these games or visit the wiki for a while and let a cooler head and a more informed understanding of the lore to prevail. While there are certainly critical comments and concerns to be made about TES Online, it simply just doesn't warrant this level of paranoid pessimism with the information we have currently (which is true even now, months after you wrote this article). I understand your bias against MMO's and can relate in many ways (though it does seem kind of anti-social and/or attention desperate to feel a need to *always* be the center of the story with no one else involved), but really the bottom line is that Bethesda has clearly compartmentaliz ed the MMO from the traditional games and the single-player games will continue to go on under the power of their predecessors regardless of whatever does or doesn't happen with this one. If you truly still feel this way about this game, and this wasn't just journalistic license and the drive to seem "edgy" and cynical by dumping on things popularly liked or favorably anticipated, then I really do hope you re-examine the world of the Elder Scrolls series and the way Bethesda is handling the franchise, because as an impartial observer, you don't seem to me to be giving either one enough credit or thorough analysis. Anyway, just my two cents on this. Or more like at least fifty cents at this word count, I guess.

PS: I think you mean "plastic." Plasticine is modelling clay, and while The Old Republic definitely has its issues, it seriously does not look like claymation.
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#23 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise jo 2013-01-20 15:22
Zenimax totally break TES series ! They break the best game ever to do a game like shaya...seriously ? it's pathetik
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#24 Wow wasn't first SSS 2013-01-23 12:45
Quote:
Part of the reason that World of Warcraft is the most successful MMO on the multiplayer gaming scene is because it got there first,


WoW wasn't first, nor did it have *any* features that hadn't been done before. Everquest ring a bell? Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online?
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#25 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise bob 2013-01-24 09:34
So first off, in regards to people complaining about 3rd person, are you serious? How the hell else would you be able to survey a raid party, heal, manage mobs, etc. while in first person? This isn't a single player game, it's a mmo. First person would be useless as hell and even if they added it, only a total scrub would use it.
In terms of the graphics, they go with the cartoon graphics, because it puts less load on the server, allows for more people to have access to the game, and won't cuase your comp to explode when there are a hundred or so people running around the screen at once. Not everyone owns a NASA computer with quad GPU's.
For the class system, they might have 3 specific class areas, like mage, rogue, warrior, but they have a perk system, you can pick what sort of weapons and armor you want to wear, and you can specialize in certain areas. So if you want to be a heavy armor mage wielding a great sword, you can. If you want to be a werewolf, there is a perk for that too. You still get a blocking and sprint system as well, and there isn't a locked in auto combat like the other mmo's.
The article also complains about the lore "contradicting" TES lore. You might want to work on your vocabulary, contradiction implies something to the opposite of. In the case of TES online, it is only adding in lore that wasn't mentioned in the original TES lore. At best, you can say it is a far reach or doesn't make sense, but contradicting? Not at all. And really, complaining about time travel? If you think time travel is so absurd in the realm of magic, then you might as well stop playing fantasy rpgs, because I hate to bust it to you, but a giant vampire lord living under a mountain draining power from the heart of a dead god is too.
Lastly, you don't know the plot yet, so you can't say it's cookie cutter and you haven't even played it yet. How the heck do you know what it's going to be like before you even play it? And even if mmo's tend to be cash grabs, they never actually ruin or destroy a series. MMo's aren't responsible, it's shitty game developers, like Bioware, that are. Bioware has been a cash whore for years now and it's their shoddy work that kills series, not the fact that it got turned into an mmo. I personally have a ton of faith in Bethesda that, regardless of a TES mmo, they will continue to produce amazing games. In conclusion, stop finding every excuse you can to complain and just go with the flow. You won't know anything really about the game till it is close to launch so everything you're saying is just speculation. Which wouldn't be so bad, except it's inane and just comes across as an empty ***** fest.
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#26 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Tony 2013-01-24 21:32
#9 we all wanted a kind of skyrim multiplayer, but it seems zenimax is targeting the mmo crowd more. Exploring tamriel is actually just limited to your chosen alliance. Friends who want to adventure with you on another alliance are prohibited from mingling outside the pvp setting. Theyve restricted the immersion and co op, which had initially drawn me to the game, in favor of the pvp idea, which really has little appeal to me. I dont want to get stuck with a million other guys in a moshpit war in cyrodill, I want quest with my buddies, and see tamriel. Unfortunately, thats not gonna happen unless i stray away from my chosem race and side. Thank you zenimax for letting me down.
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#27 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise 瘋狂的眼睛 2013-02-07 05:53
this game will have great gameplay, lore friendly ( no doubt guy in charge of the background, stories, etc etc, is the one who have made most of elder scrolls background ( profesional historian by the way ) let the guy do his job, he he way more qualified than us to now what's good and what's bad for Elder Scroll, guy created & studied tamriel stories for years ! One thing is certain, if they make the things they announced exactly how they announced it, its gonna be a huge success. And srsly for that alliance thing between race who was in conflict, get use to it, if the guy want to add some lines in his story, its his, and why not ? Its time of need and races must allie. It would be kinda dumb if they were like " no no im going to die alone in my swamp like a boss because im too stupid to allie with my enemies for survival "
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#28 Half Agree Nicolai Dutka 2013-02-08 00:54
I only half agree with your assessment. I definitely agree with all the lore conflicts. However, players are generally very forgiving. In general, only the hard core lore enthusiasts are going to have a problem with any of this.

As for everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that you said that isn't related to lore... I'd have to say you are completely wrong. This entire article sounds like your own personal rant, VERY opinionated, and backed up with evidence that may or may not be relevant.

I am not going to argue any of the points you made at this time. All I want to say is that, despite all the shortcomings, this game will most likely be a HUGE success.
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#29 My idea Hurkzenn 2013-02-15 19:29
I think they should just do a co-op mode. Create a simple story line with 2-4/5 heros and allow you and a few buddies to go through the game with a guantlet-ish style keeping everything TES the same. I don't want online, I want the remaining lands to be future games and finish TES where you fight for power of the whole world and call it a series. (add your online then if you feel the need).
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#30 The factions make sense Brandon 2013-03-02 21:31
if you look at the elder scrolls online lore, then you'd see why the factions make sense. The akaviri in the far east island of akavir attacked Nords, Dunmer, and Argonians, causing a truce between the three races to counter attack the akavir, and during that truce, they were also attacking Cyrodiil because they wanted freedom from the imperials. The Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajiit also made a truce because they believed that they were the smartest races in Tamriel, and tried to take the throne because they wanted elven dominance in Tamriel. The Bretons, Redguards, and Orcs also made a truce to stop their wars and also tried to take the throne to create peace and to create the second empire. The Imperials aren't completely gone, they are the fighter's guild that are trying to stop Molag Bal from plunging Tamriel into his Oblivion realm of Coldharbour. The reason it wasn't in the lore is because they haven't thought of the idea of it, and probably they'd explain it as after Molag Bal was defeated, he took most of the evidence of his loss and then as time passed, people forgot it and the information was lost forever.
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#31 Mmo Gallion 2013-03-23 16:55
I like solo player games as much as the next guy. But once wow came out I have barely touched solo games. You say you stand there in full epics but you are one of many. But do you really feel a sense of pride if you were standing there alone. Fanboys of solo games remind me of the weird kid down the street that would throw the baseball up in the air to himself and hit it. Sorry but that sucks. Playing football by yourself sucks, going to the movies alone sucks, playing in a one man band sucks, and playing video games alone sucks
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#32 Please? Valk1r3 2013-04-18 14:11
Why can't they just make another TES game the sizew of daggerfall. Just add co-op to it. That would make me more than happy.

Also now that I've heard this game has subscription fees it can ***** right off. Why can't it be like Guild Wars 2. Huge game. No Subscription fees.
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#33 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise MarkRyan 2013-06-07 05:34
Sorry this is a little on a tangient but relevant to the fears and anxieties of many who feel the Skyrim experience will be spoiled. In Neal Stephenson's book Reamde he imagines a similar mmo world divided not between the arbitrary forces of good and evil (or in this instance the various factions of tamriel) -such divisions have no real significance, no genuine motivation to sustain a world of real people . He divides the world into two very highly inspired factions, those who support the sacredness of the fantasy gaming experience (the Skyrim purists) and those hackers, modders, etc who disrupt and play for alternative destructive motivations. The Coalition of Earth Tones and The Forces of Brightness is what he calls them i believe. I doubt very highly anything like this would ever really happen in a game such as Skyrim, but man would I love to see that dichotomy in an multiplayer world, epic battles between internet douchebags and decent people who stand up to them.
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#34 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise P 2013-06-13 04:23
Okay, so I just want to say, YOU SPOKE TOO SOON! A lot of this stuff has been cleared up by now. The few points that remain I mostly agree with, but the one about no lore being about Molag Bal's attack... WELL THATS WHY THEY DID IT. Because there isn't any lore from that period, so they filled the gap with a game. Besides, I am a huge roleplayer and while I also like lore, too much lore can be constricting. Because there isn't much lore from this period, you have space.
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#35 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise John Smith 2013-06-19 19:59
Have none of you who are defending this game noticed a trend. EVERY game that is made online ends up with awful graphics , and becomes boring once you see you have to waste your life to get anywhere. LOTR online , Star trek online , WOW , SWTOR. all games coming from very successful franchises turned to shit by becoming online.
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#36 Gw2 Gw2 2013-06-24 01:02
Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars 2.......
nothing more to say
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#37 Tes online just not right matt 2013-07-01 16:15
First of all from first look this is game has way to much of the fantasy aspect in it, skyrim and oblivion where like medieval fallout they where dark and realistic with bandits and animals and a some what realistic landscape, and the monsters are dark and not to gay looking, tes online just makes me want to barf its so fake, and unhealthy for the mind. Holy crap completely different, the reason I like tes because it is not wow.
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#38 LORE LORE LORE LORE mat 2013-07-01 20:49
I had the same feeling about everything you said about lore. The Oblivion Crisis in TES 4 was suppose to be a one of a kind (other than Battlespire), so why would they make an almost identical crisis one thousand years before just 300 years before Tiber Sepim's reign. What they should have done is kept the interregnum time line and said ***** Molag Bal, ***** the Tharns, ***** Manimarco, and ***** immortality; and you know what ***** the whole mmo, and for gods sakes doesn't anyone know Cyrodiil used to be a damn jungle.
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#39 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise gewojh 2013-07-05 14:36
Combat looks so gay, characters move gayly, and joining only one of three factions, more like three testicles is very. I have seen the beta and demos but obviously it will be ridiculous and gay to play Elder Holes online. WoW and Blizzard does a lot better.
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#40 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise gewojh 2013-07-05 14:37
Quoting matt:
First of all from first look this is game has way to much of the fantasy aspect in it, skyrim and oblivion where like medieval fallout they where dark and realistic with bandits and animals and a some what realistic landscape, and the monsters are dark and not to gay looking, tes online just makes me want to barf its so fake, and unhealthy for the mind. Holy crap completely different, the reason I like tes because it is not wow.


I agree. The combat in this ESO looks really terrible. But gay in my opinion. I laughed when I saw the demos and beta and soon to be gameplay.
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#41 Competition Karol 2013-07-06 00:22
I definitely agree with some of you points. First off, I am not a big fan of 3rd person. Never really was. Secondly, I completely agree on the idiotic of the fraction. Nords + Argonians + Dunmer? Especially right after Skyrim that pact makes no sense (I know the game it set in the past, but racial hatred does not develop over night). Historically these pacts make no sense too. Also this is the first time that the Imperial race is unavailable since Morrowind =(
And most importantly, COMPETITION. It's not that I don't love playing with other people, but out of the hundreds of thousands of people somebody in TES Online will be "the best" "the richest" "the strongest"....etc. TES was always about you aka the player being the best. In online games it too easily becomes how much real $$ you spend is how good you become.

Also my internet connection sucks, very very bad.
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#42 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise JaiGuru 2013-07-08 08:52
Quoting jc:
I think the author has an issue with MMO's more than anything. Nearly every argument brought up isnt TES specific tbh. All MMO's will have its share of politics, chat troll griping and posturing, redundancy in storyline etc. Content is player driven more than anything.

To say its going to be Sh** with with a prior prejudice against MMOs to begin with is disingenuous.

Its also trial and error for Devs throughout the life of the MMO successful or not.

Did you even read the article? Every point he made was clearly linked back to either TES lore or game play elements.
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#43 It's not Canonic. Jim 2013-07-14 20:23
For those having issues with the lore of TES Online.. It has nothing to do with the actual lore of the singleplayer games. They've even made it a point to say it's non-canonic to everything they've made. Which should be the main issue. They're basically making a spin-off series with the same names and just recreating the lore to satisfy an MMO.
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#44 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise dfhio 2013-07-22 14:49
Bethesda was already down the tube. Always was always will.
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#45 Really now? Kalin 2013-07-24 14:01
The game is going to be first person played. Its not going to be "SPAM THOSE BUTTONS!" based like WoW. Attacking and blocking will be real time just like in TES games.More over Zenimax Online is going to take care of ESO, Bethesda Softworks is going to continue making TES games. Everything I just said are facts confirmed by the developers in interviews, unlike that full text you wrote there which is full of incosistences that you only guessed and arent based on real facts. Just because its a MMO it dosent mean its "Bound to be identical like all others" Sure you have some points here and there like the story, but we're talking about an Elder Scroll game here, like it or not its still bearing the name on it. They never let us down, they always took in account our oppinions if you look at what morrowind's fans demanded and what oblivion has, and what oblivion's fans demanded and what skyrim has. They ALWAYS make sure our "WANT" list gets into the game. They arent trying to make a MMO and thats it. They're trying to redefine the genre of mmos. I myself hate mmos and havent touched one in 3 years now ever since I quit them for what I tought it was going to be permanently, I hate the limitations mmos impose on me and the stupid 12-years-old we're all bound to run into. But if Zenimax are going to rise up their swords and stand against WoW and try to overthrow it, then I'm not going to get butthurt about why are they even trying. I'm going to join them. Personally, I think its going to be an adventure of a lifetime, I have faith in it. Also as a side not, why are you mad about that you're going to have to share your fame with somebody, just be one of the first players when the game will be realsed and make your way to the top, you cant just expect everything to be handed down to you after doing a storyline like in the normal tes games. I hope my comment hasnt offended anyone, and well if you dont like something it dosent mean you have the right to tell everyone you dont. I mean really if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all.
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#46 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Calemvir 2013-07-28 23:20
Quoting Stuart:
Quoting Charlie P:
Stop your bollocks. At least wait to see until we have more information about it.
We already have enough information to know this game will be shit. For one they're copy/pasting WoW's combat and it's going to run on the Hero engine. We're looking at another flop like The Old Republic.

What we're "looking at" is ESO, By now more information has been released which negate nearly all of the points, the rest is just personal opinion and thinking to much about it eg: I killed Manimarco in IV, why isn't there a book written about that? My point is that the controls are going to be the same as in any other ES title and you can't know that a game is bad unless you play it yourself.
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#47 Mr.MORPG JonnyMcLaurine 2013-07-31 01:18
Quoting tors:
How the heck is Orc + Breton + Redguard "deliberately designed" around the three main MMO archetypes? I see Warrior, Mage, Warrior. Where's the Rogue there?


its the niteblade
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#48 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Chris 2013-08-06 21:50
For anyone else that will comment from this point forward, please note the article was written last year, and more info has been released since then.

Also note this is an opinion piece from one person in their office who was forecasting the game based on limited info at the time.

As such, contradicting these opinions with current facts and calling the author names isn't productive.
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#49 Sad if true KorrMuraan 2013-08-17 00:45
I just hope that if Bethesda does retire TES, that another company will pickup the Single Player RPG banner and run with it. I think I might be playing a lot of X Rebirth in the near future. :)
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#50 Imperials Mr Miffles 2013-08-30 05:31
I'm a little confused as to where the Imperials fit in all of this.
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#51 Couldn't agree moar Jamez0r 2013-09-01 13:19
I couldn't agree moar and moar about this article, but oh well. I'm a bit tired of games taking this path and sucking in the end, burying the title to the grave. A part of me wants this to suck, so they stick to single player games, but a part of me also wants it to be successful, since I love TES, but personally I hate MMO's.
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#52 Some misleading stuff Avenger 2013-09-21 21:53
#7 is false. In several of the lore books in-game as well as dialogue, the invasion of Molag Bal from Coldharbour is mentioned. It just was vague and not fleshed-out. A perfect place to set this type of open game. The rest is just nonsense.

The author clearly despises MMOs, and that has colored his entire viewpoint. I used to hate the very idea, too. But I started playing DC Universe Online and Star Trek Online, and you know what? I was a grumpy old dinosaur, too, just like this author. But I got over it.
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#53 Ignorant Mr. Bat 2013-09-30 22:35
You obviously don't know any of the lore, the factions were there THE ENTIRE TIME. Bethesda has just made them well known this time. Same goes for the time period. IT IS IN THE LORE BOOKS. AND THE COLDHARBOUR INVASION WAS TOO. Before you publish an article, try to do some research .
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#54 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Steve 2013-10-27 15:59
Why can't they just make it like a pure skyrim sequel with all of the same game mechanics except its in all of tamriel and there are a couple hundred other people in the world too? It's easy, races can pvp but you can't pvp your own race unless in an arena or dueling and make a crap load of quests that keep you busy so you aren't inline with 20 people doing the same storyline quest. Or make storyline quests instances like KOTOR. Make quest npcs beastly like neutral city WoW guards so griefers will be slaughtered. It simple. I'm sure people would rather play in a TES world like that instead of some bastardized version the plays like an MMO.
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#55 Anilinov Anilinov 2013-10-28 20:04
You guys are idiots mmorpg games = becoming a slave to a game wich is made to consume as much of you're time as possable, but an rpg game = the utmost enjoyment of the player, the hook that makes you fall in love with a game, that an mmo cannot doe end of story.
And as of a fact i have played mmo's a hella of a lot and i got to the point i knew for a fact that they are made to waste you're time.
They should have made it like Dark souls, now that game had co-op in it and was insanely fun to play trough the awesome game story with someone but now there wont be an awesome story, there will be only this, you will get 1000gold and 1000xp if you kill 100 mobs, and over and over again, no thanx i will not play it even if they pay me 2, (probably) :P
Sry for the bad spelling i'm just lazy to fix it :)
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#56 Not Lore-breaking Parker 2013-11-09 16:02
The story is not lore breaking. What do you think is going to happen when the amulet that emperors wear that prevents the gates of oblivion being opened is lost. A daedric invasion, it completely makes sense and goes with the lore.
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#57 SkyrimTimeLords Urtakyrss 2013-11-24 18:50
The Skyrim Time Travel was cool, the best part of Skyrim & nearly unexplored, I wrote four stories off the possibilities.
Just watch some Doctor Who if you need ideas.

ESO looks awful, I'm not sure why some glowing outline highlights people.

Also, fix the inventory problem, so you can carry two weapons & a hundred pounds of gear, no hiding bows & arrow under you magic kilt.

Forcing characters to carry a smaller realistic inventory forces choices & decisions on what matters most.

I'm waiting for Fallout 4, with better than Skyrim graphics.
I was Hoping New Vegas would look like the commercial,
with the cut scene of the red-eyed sniper dropping targets at range.

And for goodness sake, improve the A.I. A LOT.

I doubt anyone would run in a straight line into full automatic weapons fire - but Fallout NPCs have no fighting skills, do not use ranged weapons well, fail at firing from cover, do not flee for their lives, and generally just die easily and suck at fighting.

I don't care what software cheats you stuff in to Fallout 4 - just
make the NPCs smart enough to 'see' the cones of fire & use cover to protect themselves & only pop up to take pot shots at players, preferably from behind, after a player walks by - so players will have to play smarter to NOT be ambused around every corner.

And make them 'live' their little lives - not just stand by a cave waiting to be killed.

Oh, and more story lines - not requiring constant fighting - more of a sim - world & wide open sandbox game.

Exploring the world and finding weird and funny stuff is the best part of Fallout.

And more than 4 voices. please add 64 more voice actors!

No 'arrows in the knee' comments - add 1000 more random comments, at least you wont hear EXACTLY the same thing over and over five times in 2 minutes.

But ESO looks like a flop compared to Skyrim.
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#58 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise trent 2014-02-06 08:27
Quoting tors:
How the heck is Orc + Breton + Redguard "deliberately designed" around the three main MMO archetypes? I see Warrior, Mage, Warrior. Where's the Rogue there?


I see warrior-warrior-shit mage who doesnt care about dps as high elf racial is so obvious the best mage choice.

This is what pisses me off they claim theres all this freedom of playstyle while they have boxed in classes to races to an insane degree. High elf only mage choice, wood elf and cat people only rogue choice while having every other race dragonkinghts essentially. Oh and brentons are healers or just dpsless mages gg
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#59 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Jill 2014-02-12 17:35
Played the beta, and this is sadly on point, despite all the people in the comments claiming that they were going to mix it up an it would feel like other TES games. While you CAN go first person, it was clearly designed around third person, and while the very basic combat is sorta-kinda similar to previous TES games, (but with a very noticeable aim-assist) you can't do much without using special attacks, which are used by arranging them in a hotbar and accessing with a corresponding number key. It really does not feel like a TES game. The UI in general is pretty clunky, actually.

It also doesn't feel right because of the feel of the graphics. Some have said that this is due to them needing simpler graphics due to it being an MMO, ok, fine, that's understandable that the textures and models won't be as detailed. But that does not mean the palette they use has to be more gaudy. Also contributing to it not feeling like TES is the plants/gatherable ingredients. Alchemy has been a pretty big part of TES for a while now, and that came with a huge number of pickable plants ever since Morrowind. The games are practically flower picking simulators. But here, you're lucky to find a plant to pick anywhere, they are few and far between, making specializing in alchemy very difficult due to the scarcity of ingredients. While in the other games you often ended up with a huge surplus of the most common ingredients, and in TESO that could lead to imbalance and easy gold, they went WAY too far in the other direction. Also, if you do happen to get enough ingredients to make some potions, and you make a poison, you can not use it on your weapon! You just end up drinking the damn thing, they're useless aside from as vendor fodder. Instead, you get a generic 'poison arrow' power in the Nightblade line with a basic DOT effect. No more fiendish and creative poison making makes me sad. :(

Somewhat related to that, my favorite playstyle from the other games, sneaky assassin, is... not as fun. Since most dungeons are shared, quite often, sneaking in for an assassination is just not a viable tactic. Everyone else is running through the dungeon killing things before you can get close enough to an enemy to assassinate them. You can still get sneak attacks off with a bow an arrow when others are around, but it's just not the same... Also, since you can't make a Nightblade with any real Illusion magic (aside from a whopping 2.5 second duration invisibility spell) a lot of my favorite tactics are impossible. Just the fact that you get 3 classes to chose from is laughable. TES is, to me, as much about organic and loose almost classless gameplay (while they did technically have classes before Skyrim removed them, they were more guidelines than anything, you could step outside those boundaries very easily) and the classes feel too restrictive, even with multiple paths within each, I can't get creative.

On the lore side of things, when I first saw Mannimarco's name mentioned, yeah, this was a worry of mine. In the lore books/quests dealing with him in the other games, a bid to conquer Tamriel is never alluded to, and you'd think this would be something that would be mentioned, even given Tamriel's notoriously unreliable historians. Haven't run across Tharn... But my biggest issue is the alliances. The only one that makes a lick of sense is the Aldmeri Dominion, and event hat's a bit iffy. The others just do not make any sense, no matter what threat they may be facing, the hatreds run too deep, especially at that point in history. I could buy it if, say, the Argonians and Dunmer were working together because the Dunmer had FORCED the Argonians into that pact, but that's not the case.
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#60 ur so....so wrong =[ john 2014-02-15 22:59
Quoting Stuart:
Quoting Charlie P:
Stop your bollocks. At least wait to see until we have more information about it.
We already have enough information to know this game will be shit. For one they're copy/pasting WoW's combat and it's going to run on the Hero engine. We're looking at another flop like The Old Republic.

well thats just not true for so many reasons. god damn u fanboys...listen, swtor was COPY PASTE wow combat alright? eso has no targeting, its soft locking, theres even roll dodges. plz stop spiting hate about a game u clearly know nothing about
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#61 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Smith 2014-02-18 09:47
Ok, It's not a game for everyone, but who knows when the next TES will be released so it's a nice way to jump back into the world and lore of ESO. Secondly, Go ***** yourself.
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#62 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Adlostman 2014-03-02 12:12
People that are admittedly biased against MMO's are not the best reviewers of MMO's, I'm just saying. So while it might have it's flaws, based on the 2 beta weekends I've particpated in, there is a lot to like. 1. Quests and storyline (when the quests aren't bugged). 2. Combat system. Some say it's twitchy, I say it just takes a bit of practice, although I haven't tried PVP yet. 3. Lore. If you enjoyed the books and lore in other TES titles there is much to find here as well. The mages guild is all about collecting lore. 4. Helping others. It's fun to walk up on someone who is about to die and saving them. 5. Seems like there is a lot of room for role-playing, if you are in to that.

So I pre-ordered and so will a lot of folks. I suspect there will be a lot of people writing post launch reviews saying "I was sceptical at first" or "I really didn't think this game was going to work, but..."

Final thought, for Ef sake, stop playing MMO's if you don't like them. You only ruin the games for those of us that do.
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#63 Nice Call Joshua Risko 2014-03-03 06:30
Well you basicly called it
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#64 Stevenson Hans 2014-03-13 01:41
Quoting Jill:
Played the beta, and this is sadly on point, despite all the people in the comments claiming that they were going to mix it up an it would feel like other TES games. While you CAN go first person, it was clearly designed around third person, and while the very basic combat is sorta-kinda similar to previous TES games, (but with a very noticeable aim-assist) you can't do much without using special attacks, which are used by arranging them in a hotbar and accessing with a corresponding number key. It really does not feel like a TES game. The UI in general is pretty clunky, actually.

It also doesn't feel right because of the feel of the graphics. Some have said that this is due to them needing simpler graphics due to it being an MMO, ok, fine, that's understandable that the textures and models won't be as detailed. But that does not mean the palette they use has to be more gaudy. Also contributing to it not feeling like TES is the plants/gatherable ingredients. Alchemy has been a pretty big part of TES for a while now, and that came with a huge number of pickable plants ever since Morrowind. The games are practically flower picking simulators. But here, you're lucky to find a plant to pick anywhere, they are few and far between, making specializing in alchemy very difficult due to the scarcity of ingredients. While in the other games you often ended up with a huge surplus of the most common ingredients, and in TESO that could lead to imbalance and easy gold, they went WAY too far in the other direction. Also, if you do happen to get enough ingredients to make some potions, and you make a poison, you can not use it on your weapon! You just end up drinking the damn thing, they're useless aside from as vendor fodder. Instead, you get a generic 'poison arrow' power in the Nightblade line with a basic DOT effect. No more fiendish and creative poison making makes me sad. :(

Somewhat related to that, my favorite playstyle from the other games, sneaky assassin, is... not as fun. Since most dungeons are shared, quite often, sneaking in for an assassination is just not a viable tactic. Everyone else is running through the dungeon killing things before you can get close enough to an enemy to assassinate them. You can still get sneak attacks off with a bow an arrow when others are around, but it's just not the same... Also, since you can't make a Nightblade with any real Illusion magic (aside from a whopping 2.5 second duration invisibility spell) a lot of my favorite tactics are impossible. Just the fact that you get 3 classes to chose from is laughable. TES is, to me, as much about organic and loose almost classless gameplay (while they did technically have classes before Skyrim removed them, they were more guidelines than anything, you could step outside those boundaries very easily) and the classes feel too restrictive, even with multiple paths within each, I can't get creative.

On the lore side of things, when I first saw Mannimarco's name mentioned, yeah, this was a worry of mine. In the lore books/quests dealing with him in the other games, a bid to conquer Tamriel is never alluded to, and you'd think this would be something that would be mentioned, even given Tamriel's notoriously unreliable historians. Haven't run across Tharn... But my biggest issue is the alliances. The only one that makes a lick of sense is the Aldmeri Dominion, and event hat's a bit iffy. The others just do not make any sense, no matter what threat they may be facing, the hatreds run too deep, especially at that point in history. I could buy it if, say, the Argonians and Dunmer were working together because the Dunmer had FORCED the Argonians into that pact, but that's not the case.




You're crazy sir. This game looks to be the best MMO ever developed for PC. You think it's not going to do well on other platforms?
This game is going to be the basis for a shitload of frequently released expansions without the obstruction of working on another engine for 4 years more...,..
This game is going have the fastest most up to date graphics and lore updates to make it like series so that the $$$$ is 100% worth it and not wasted on shitty games while waiting.
That's why ESO going to have open style game play . It has the perfect formula for team gameplay and solve tha problem of online on elder scrol game.
You anderstend or you still foil?
This game is got's lot's of races, lands, the whole place is he expansion going to fix the thing you said or even make a interesting new stories to make it up. So don't be angry or hate to Bethesda because they know best for future. Company alwasys knows best for future if customer dont like it, then many customer have to say same for them to change it. But now it's looks 100% perfect A+ great game. So dont complain if you dont think sure.
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#65 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise sagesource 2014-03-15 07:20
One small point. Any argument that says "xxx is not in lore to date THEREFORE the entire thing is invalid" is imbecile. My academic field is the history of ancient China, and YES DAMMIT, HUGE things get left out of history the way it was written in ancient times. Anyone who tries to use lorebooks that are written like medieval accounts to "prove" something did or did not happened had better get his or her head read. We aren't talking about modern history books here, and besides, they aren't anything to shout about either.

And Molag Bal trying to take over Tamriel when it was Dagon doing the same thing in Oblivion? Well, why not? The Daedric Lords are not some coordinated collective cooperative enterprise. You might check into The Shivering Isles and ask Jyggalag, Lord of Order, how it worked out for him. Poor bastard got sandbagged for no greater crime than being too successful. I have no problem with Molag Bal poaching on Dagon's territory. I *will* have a problem if Dagon doesn't get royally pissed off at it and try to shiv Molag Bal in some way to get back at him, but that's another story.

Nope. The thing is ES enough, and given the sort of society the game is set in, the other objections don't hold a drop of water. What's going to kill ESO is that Bethseda can't code worth a damn and has crap quality control. I'm in the "last" beta right now and I've already lost one character permanently to a stupid glitch which shut her in a chamber while at the same time omitting the choice she had to make to get out. it's just buggy as hell with stupid elementary bugs like when you look into a container, sometimes you can't turn your figure or change its angle of view for several minutes, during which something can be pounding you into a pulp. Things like that. Screen jams. Bugs. Broken quests. General sloppiness. Yuk.
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#66 Won't Buy Rob 2014-03-17 21:39
Played three beta weekends now. Each time the gate is so boring I literally stop by half way through Saturday. I love MMOs, played WoW for 2.5 years, and SWTOR 1.5 years, FF14 9 months. My complaint isn't against MMOs, just TESO.

It's boring, I never get pulled into the world, the immersion is weak. The class systems don't seem to matter, everyone is everything. The action has a certain amount of lag that makes it seem fake. Action-based hand-eye skills don't matter. (Shooting someone in the head with an arrow does no more damage then a shot to their foot.) The landscapes are crowded with repeating elements, so much so I get confused and feel like every direction goes to the same place. The mobs are all the same. The combat is just hit 1-2-3, rinse, repeat. The crafting has no actual game to it other than gathering the items and clicking a button. Its taken a lot to convince myself not to buy it any ways as I've been waiting so long for it, but no. I will not buy it! It's a rip off, truly.
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#67 RE: 8 Reasons why The Elder Scrolls Online will bury a great games franchise Lou 2014-04-03 09:53
Bottom line, this game sucks in so many ways. Nothing more to say.
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#68 You are stupid sir Kurk 2014-04-05 18:54
This game improved 100% from the beta releases. I find it more enjoyable than wow. Crafting makes the game... Don't play MMO's if you are into stupid lore, it's a competitive game, not a book. You can go play your single player games while drinking alone and masterbating to your character sir. We will be partying and cooperating boss kills while you replay skyrim and oblivion over and over. Thanks
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#69 WoW wasn't first, just better... Tainurn 2014-04-13 04:49
Quoting SSS:
Quote:
Part of the reason that World of Warcraft is the most successful MMO on the multiplayer gaming scene is because it got there first,


WoW wasn't first, nor did it have *any* features that hadn't been done before. Everquest ring a bell? Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online?


The only thing that World of Warcraft has done that previous MMO's didn't do is the introduction of instanced dungeons. This was the huge selling point between the (at the time) current MMO giant and an up-and-comer.

Unfortunately, whenever a new MMO is released, WoW does a little something to innovate or lower the goal posts so it's more accessible to the masses. There is a reason that only 600, 000 people play games like EVE Online, and 10 million people play WoW.

ESO is going to fall into the same problems that "wow-killers" have run into. Games life Rift, SWtOR, The Secret World, and Guild Wars to failed to do was innovate. On the topic of The Secret World, it's leveling system was akin to the old elder scrolls games, not having a class, not having restrictions on what you can do, and your own play-style effects how you level.

That game was dead on release. I even had my collectors edition refunded because I played for 10 minutes in the beta and wanted to stick white-hot forks into my eye sockets. I can only imagine that this is going to be the same with ESO.
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#70 Stupid Blahblah 2014-04-27 11:35
You are so wrong the visuals are beautiful, and the theme and story, yeah a bit repetitive. But sky rim got boring because I was alone in a huge map. The MMO made the game so much better. The author of this is a fun hating greasy walrus phuck
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#71 The game is on point EnjoyingESO 2014-05-01 07:26
Most of your points are on Lore, which to be honest hardly anyone gives a damn about. The game is actually quite impressive, I can build my character how I want to while keeping it a viable option. There are no set builds that everyone should us and the content keep me content and wanting to play more. The story is above average and the visuals are spectacular.
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#72 Why the hate? MysteryMan 2014-05-08 01:27
Not sure why this game is getting so much hate. It is a really solid MMO, questing feels similar (emphasis on "similar") to Skyrim, and HOLY SHIT the environments are beautiful. Sure, it has had some problems (look at almost every other MMO launch though), but they are working on fixes, and more kickass content. I have been having a blast with this game. I would like it if they actually had ragdoll and physics though, and I greatly dislike their choice of engine.
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#73 In retrospect, this journalist is just whining over irrelevent matters. StephenAKACatmandew 2014-05-14 02:31
Sorry, but if you took the idea of MMORPG and converged with The Elder Scrolls, you are going to get exactly what ESO is. I liked WoW and I like TES, and so I like ESO - and I like the creative advantage of each character being entirely unique, instead of restrictively class-oriented rules about weapons/armor like you see in WoW. At the end of the day, it's just like any other TES RPG but you add in the Online element and then for some reason every person with issues socializing and interacting well with the general populous starts throwing temper tantrums about why they like the earlier formats of TES games. Who CARES that the lore in ESO is entirely new and not-previously-mentioned in such well-documented TES history? Of course they are going to do that. BECAUSE THEY CAN. It's not your private storyline to dictate, just because it FELT that way in the past TES games - but you feel so entitled to pass judgment now that developers have made you face the truth of the matter that you AREN'T all alone with a bunch of NPCs and no one to judge you. It's just what is happening so adjust. The franchise will not sink, regardless.
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#74 timeline of the elder scrolls online does not make sense sergio 2014-05-15 17:34
The elder Scrolls Online goes thousand years before Skyrim according to ZeniMax actually a thousand years before skyrim because a thousand years in the series was epoch Third Era
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#75 umm what? Jesse 2014-06-18 18:53
How will this kill the franchise at all? It's being developed by a completely diferent company than the one that makes the TES games we know and love.
ZOS is different than BGS. BGS makes the TES game ZOS is making ESO. It won't stunt or ruin the series at all.
As an extremely hardcore TES fan I have played this game and can say it's quite enjoyable, it's obviously not a TES game but it's still a fun game set in that universe.
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#76 WAY better than any of the TES games! Landerz 2014-06-22 17:52
I've played every TES game since Morrow Wind and enjoyed everyone of them but ESO is next level sh*t! So tired of people bad mouthing this game for no apparent reason other than it didn't fit the exact criteria of what they thought it would be like.

Below are 10 reasons ESO is better than it's single player counter part.

01. Massive MULTIPLAYER online role playing game. Playing in groups is so much more fun. Even if you prefer to solo, there is so much content in this game that you could literally play for ever.
02. Large scale PVP. Nuff said.
03. Diversity of skill sets. This allows for tons of strategic builds. You can spend hours figuring out a cool build and having alts has never been more fun!
04. No more boring skyrim gradients. I prefer ESO graphics to skyrims in every way. There is a reason the most popular MMOS are colorful.
05. Environments are insanely good and extremely big! Just walking around finding skyshards is fun. There is so much to see. Granted some of the solo dungeons are a bit repetitive with similar layouts but there are HUNDREDS of them!
06. Dungeons. You can run a wide variety of dungeons with 4 up to 12 people. Makes for some exciting guild runs.
07 Crafting is a blast! With all the different styles and stat bonuses, there is hundreds if not thousands of different items you can make.
08. Lore. How can you say anything negative about lore in this game. There is more books to read then all of TES games combined!
09. Questing is very immersive and having professional voice acting along with long quest lines make this one of the best quest MMOs i've ever played! Some of the ending quest lines in the different regions was so epic that it was as good or better than some of the Endings of previous TES games.
10. Finally.. it has everything you love from TES. How any TES fans could bash this game is beyond me.

I've played ALL of the TES games, WoW, EQ1, 2, GW 1, 2, Rift, Tera, SWTOR and many other MMOs and I must say I'm very impressed with this game. I rate it as good as EQ or WoW (in their day) and that is saying a lot! If it's this good now.. just imagine how good it will be once they fine tune everything. neither EQ or WoW was spectacular with they first came out. I have no problem paying for expansions or subscriptions as it only gives them more money to make a already good game even better.

To all the haters, ask yourself why you truly like this game instead of making up things that make no sense. If it's boring then maybe you shouldn't be playing these types of games because to be honest, it's one of the least boring MMO's out there.
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#77 Interesting, but its out now and succeeding Reyn 2014-07-13 04:25
RPGS LONG predate computer games, I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 37 years this year. I also played EQ and EQ II - the original MMORPGs, NOT WoW - which I have also played. I've never played any single player RPGs and I'm unlikely to do so - without human interaction even if its across internet - RPGS simply do not hold my interest -- so... coming at this from a different perspective -- my son and I played WoW for several years (that's why I switched to WoW, he didn't like EQ - too complicated) Now of course he's in his late teens and he and his boyfriend have decided to switch to ESO, so I have as well. I don't like it as well as EQ and EQII, but that's always been true for me with any MMORG except the ORIGINAL SWG. However it is certainly adequate, enjoyable, complex enough to keep me happy (and him, he's gotten older) - the sub fee is normal, and every place my character goes is absolutely brimming with PCs, its been more than a month -- I suspect its going to succeed. Just saying.

And good for it. As an author for what I presume is a professional site though - someone who KNOWS he doesn't like a genre shouldn't write about that genre. If you know you don't like MMORGs, then don't write about them - its easy.

Reyn
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